Mon 23 Feb, 2009
Black Americans and crime
Comments (29) Filed under: Thinking about race, privilege and inequalityTags: Crime, Homicide, Racial inequality, Racial segregation, Racial stereotypes
Inspired by a recent exchange of views on another post on this blog, I’d like to offer a few statistics about race and criminal behavior in the U.S.
The comment which sparked this exchange, offered by Louis Calabro, was as follows:
Daily we discuss slavery’s damage to blacks, but what about the extreme disproportionate number of black on white crimes–some horrible?
The idea that black criminals are preying on white victims is a persistent myth in our country, not unlike the mistaken belief that welfare recipients are overwhelmingly black.
Race and crime
According to the Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), for instance, in 2005 86% of white homicide victims were killed by other whites.
The related claim that the victims of crime related to the legacy of slavery are primarily white is also patently false. The same statistics show, for example, that in 2005 blacks were murdered at a rate six times higher than the rate for white Americans. In 2006, for all violent crimes, the BJS reports that blacks were victimized at a rate roughly 50% higher than whites.
It is generally true, of course, that black Americans are more likely to commit crimes than whites are. The same BJS homicide statistics show that blacks are convicted of murder at more than seven times the rate of whites. It is also true that blacks are more likely to be the victims of crime, and these two facts are not unrelated.
This connection to crime, as both perpetrators and victims, is due partly to the fact that blacks are disproportionately likely to be poor. Blacks are also more likely to live in neighborhoods with many of the hallmarks of poverty, such as a lack of infrastructure and jobs. These circumstances, of course, are largely a result of the legacy of slavery and discrimination. There are undoubtedly other factors at work which are more specific to race, and these, too, are in one way or another the consequence of our nation’s difficult history with race.
Racial segregation and crime
One of the most striking facts in all of this, for me, is that most murders in the U.S. are “intraracial,” that is, they are committed against a person of the same race as the offender. This reflects the fact that our society is still largely segregated by race, especially in housing, neighborhoods, schools, churches and other social institutions. As a result, most homicides (92%) committed against a friend or acquaintance are intraracial, and even homicides against strangers (75%) are committed against someone of the same race.
The impact of racial segregation on crime in the U.S. goes a long way towards explaining the dramatic black-on-black and white-on-white crime statistics mentioned above. However, this is hardly a cause for celebration, but rather a dramatic illustration of the extent to which our society to remains highly segregated by race, despite all of our enthusiasm over diminishing signs of racism and the election of a black president.
MuhDik says:
In the United States, a white person is assaulted, raped, or murdered by a black person about every 20 seconds. (The opposite is true about every 10 minutes or so. More than 20 times less likely.)
And the average African American IQ hovers around 85. About 25% of blacks are CLINICALLY RETARDED. (-75 IQ) So at least 1 in 4 of your peeps will agree with your obfuscated “stats” in the article above.
James says:
How amazingly offensive. Did you even read the statistics above? The vast majority of crimes committed against white people in this country are committed by other white people. A white person is the victim of a major crime committed by another white person far more often than one committed by a black person.
As for intelligence, I hate to say it, but it’s clear that you’ve been listening to racist hate speech. All the research consistently shows that if there is any inherent difference in measured intelligence between the “races,” which seems unlikely, it would have to be quite minor.
I will take advantage of this opportunity to point out an awkward, but revealing fact: there has historically been a significant IQ gap between white and black citizens in this country, but that gap has been closing steadily over time.
In other words, you are correct to say that there is currently a roughly 15-point gap in measured IQ between white and black test-takers in this country. However, this gap has been narrowing dramatically since we began keeping records.
What are we to make of this fact? Obviously, it doesn’t mean that white people are smarter than black people–any more than it means that black people are rapidly becoming much smarter, and will soon overtake white people. Instead, it reflects the importance of poverty and similar factors on measured IQ. As black families in this country have been closing the gap with white families in terms of nutrition, education, jobs, and so forth, measured IQ has been improving dramatically.
In other words, this isn’t about race, but about poverty and similar factors; it is only about race to the extent that the “living consequences” of slavery and racial discrimination make it so. Other research backs this up: for instance, research outside the U.S. shows virtually no black-white gap in IQ, while inside the U.S., the IQ gap is very small for young children, and widens as they get older.
To take just one concrete example to understand how this can occur, it has been estimated that the children of professionals are exposed, on average, to about 2500 words in the course of a day. Children in welfare families, on the other hand, hear perhaps 600 words a day. Different experiences like this will naturally have a profound effect on childhood development. As black families continue to narrow the gap in terms of income, resources, education, jobs, and so forth, the artificial IQ gap generated by these factors should continue to diminish.
james says:
Now just why is it that you believe that only Blacks were enslaved? History is a very inneresting subject.
James says:
No one is suggesting that only blacks have had to endure slavery over the course of world history.
However, between the transatlantic and trans-Saharan slave trades, Africans and their descendants suffered by far the largest and most systematic example of slavery the world has ever known. In addition, chattel slavery was a particularly horrendous version of enslavement.
In the U.S., the practice of slavery was generally limited to the millions of Africans and their descendants who toiled on farms, in households and for businesses in the North and South prior to the Civil War.
The most notable exception involved American Indians. There were many examples of American Indians being kept in conditions of slavery in this country, and in addition, thousands of American Indians were enslaved and shipped off to the West Indies.
The result of this history is that it is, by and large, black families in this country who are suffering the consequences of chattel slavery and its aftermath. Native American families, by contrast, are generally facing the consequences of a very different history, one involving the warfare, displacement, and other interactions which characterized relations between European settlers and native peoples on this continent.
John says:
I’ve not seen statistics spun like this in a long time. Of course most crimes against white people are going to be perpetrated by other white people. Like you said, people are still somewhat segregated along racial lines. The vast majority of victims are going to be someone the perpetrator knows or is geographically close to. Thus, the likelihood is that crimes will generally be intra-racial.
Your own statistics damn your argument, if they’re examined closely. Blacks are murdered 6 times more often than whites. That’s because they live around other black people who kill them. Blacks are convicted of murder 7 times more than whites because they are committing several times as many murders. 6 times as many among their own race and vastly more, inter-racially. In fact, blacks actually are found guilty LESS often than whites, per case. They just commit so many violent crimes they are bound to constitute a larger number of convictions, overall.
The average IQ of people has nothing to do with education, income, or jobs. IQ is genetic and intelligence is not the same as education or knowledge, even though many people refuse to understand the difference. Granted, damage can be done to a child’s brain through neglect, malnutrition, drug use (including in-utero, by the mother), etc. The reason black IQ is slowly rising is because blacks are more and more white, due to inter-racial reproduction. The average black person in the US is already about 30% white, and this percentage is growing. People who only appear black, but are mostly of other races are included among “blacks” and are raising the averages, e.g. Tiger Woods, Barak Obama, etc. Hopefully, you can understand that the statistics DO indicate that, yes, white people are smarter than black people, contrary to the completely unfounded statement above. The average IQ among whites is 100, American blacks 87, and the purer African blacks 70. 100>87 (or 70), if I remember my elementary school arithmetic correctly. The “no black-white gap outside the US” is a blatant lie perpetrated by politically-correct pseudo-scientific spin doctors with a preconceived socio-political agenda, by the way.
You repeatedly blame poverty for all the other negative social categories containing a disproportionately high number of blacks, but you are wrongly assuming cause and effect, by doing this. If the average person of a group is borderline retarded, exactly how wealthy do you expect them to become? In reality, the rare black people who are above-average and exceptional are hyper-rewarded for their abilities. Companies fall all over themselves to seek out and hire capable blacks into the highest positions possible, as a demonstration of their “diversity” and political correctness.
How long is this myth that white society is “always try’na keep a brotha down” going to flourish? We have a “black” president, even though calling him “black” is like calling a chess board “black”. The current social environment is such that white people are horrified of being perceived as “racist”, even though the definition of “racist” has been radically changed to mean something it never meant. “Racist” means a belief in inherent superiority or inferiority because of race. Neither hatred nor oppression are part of the original, intended definition.
Pointing out that 10% of the population is “only” half the prison population and welfare state only fools stupid people who don’t understand how those statistics correlate: If 10% of the people are 50% of the problem, that means they are 5 times more likely to be a problem.
The case of “they’ve been oppressed all this time” is a specious argument. A technologically-advanced race of people (e.g. Europeans or Egyptians) travels via technologically-advanced vehicles to find a barbaric race of people, basically living like animals and assumes them to be an inferior life form (like horses, dogs, oxen, etc. that are already bread and used for labor) and so they take them as property as they would any other type of livestock. When a relatively new society is so far advanced (superior weapons, armor, transportation, communication, government, science, mathematics, etc.) that they can just walk a relative few into the midst of an entire continent of another, more ancient society and just take whatever they want, it would seem to support the theory of superiority/inferiority of the aggressors. It is especially enlightening, knowing the warlike, aggressive nature of African history to realize if the Africans were intellectually equal to the other races, they would have at least invented high-tech weapons and defenses. They hadn’t and the individual nations and villages were still fighting with clubs and spears, while Egyptians came in with chariots, bronze armor and swords, and battle strategies. Thousands of years later, Europeans came with canons, intercontinental ships, steel weapons and armor, and very advanced tactics. The Africans were still pretty much in loincloths, wielding sticks. The opinion, then, was still that the Africans were an inferior life form, which would be morally-acceptable to use as livestock. Please keep in mind, I am in no way endorsing enslaving or oppressing any people just because it’s possible; I’m merely stating the fact that blacks are not stupid because they’ve been victimized, but victimized because they’re stupid. Once again, that doesn’t make it right and nobody defends a rapist because the woman is weaker or a mugger who steals a blind man’s wallet.
Your entire argument denies reality and turns cause/effect on its ear. You claim blacks are criminals and have low IQs because of poverty and that they are in poverty because of racism and a history of slavery. Well, the majority of voters elected a black man as President (per my previous point of American whites basically kissing the collective butts of the black community), so your theory of discrimination doesn’t wash. If you really care about the true cause and effect, you’ll understand blacks were easily conquered and enslaved because they’re inherently intellectually inferior. They are poor because they’re inherently intellectually inferior. They are criminals (often violent) because they’re inherently intellectually inferior. They are globally seen as a lesser race because they are considered to be inherently intellectually inferior, violent criminals, only fit for manual labor (generally). The same things can be said of stupid people of any race (or other demographic), in general. That having been said, obviously, intelligent, capable, productive, valuable black members of the community need to be rewarded for their contributions to our society and not punished for the misdeeds or negative genetic predispositions of their distant relatives.
All this may be a very distasteful pill to swallow, but when one denies the facts of a problem, it’s impossible to ever fix it, because all the wrong things are being done to rectify the situation. If one is truly interested in alleviating this dire situation, one must embrace the reality, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be, and address the real issues, rather than make false excuses and randomly pointing fingers at red herrings.
Midgets, as a group, do not make good basketball players. If we all decide the reason is because they’re wearing the wrong shoes, then wrack our brains trying to come up with the right shoes, we’ll be living in a fantasy world that will never accomplish its goal. The black community and the cowed, PC white community who are so fearful of being labeled “racist” for acknowledging anything negative about blacks (regardless of how true the thing might be) need to stop blindly accepting myths and propaganda, then start addressing the real problems and potential real solutions.
Mike says:
Of the interracial violent crimes committed each year, 85% are committed by blacks and 15% by whites.
Blacks commit 2.25 times more officially recognized hate crimes than white people do.
Blacks are 39 times more likely to murder a white person than a white person is to murder a black person.
As of 2008, Hispanics are 7.6 times more likely to be convicted of a crime than white people, black people 5.5 times more likely, Asians 2.4 times more likely and Native Americans 1.4 times more likely.
All the above is taken from official DOJ statistics. I don’t know why all this is true, and I don’t think anyone else does either. But that it is, in fact, true is beyond doubt.
On the
James says:
Mike, you say that your statistics come from DOJ, but I can’t reconcile any of your figures with what I have from DOJ.
For instance, according to the FBI, in 2008, 61% of hate crime offenders were white. See here. Do you have a source for your claim that blacks commit 2.25 times more hate crime than whites?
Likewise, do you have a source for your claim that 85% of interracial violent crimes are committed by blacks? The statistics I see on race and violent crime from the Justice Department don’t back that up, nor your suggestion that blacks are 39 times as likely to murder a white person than whites are to murder a black person.
Jim says:
I tried to find the supporting statistic: 86% of white homicide victims were killed by other whites, on the above link but could not. This statistic makes no sense, and I believe you got it wrong.
James says:
Thanks for taking the time to verify my citation, Jim. You’re right that the 2005 federal crime statistics are no longer available on that particular page. The page has been updated, but 86% is the correct statistic for 2005, and I can locate that report elsewhere if you’d like.
I’m surprised, though, that you say that the correct number “makes no sense” to you.
Why is it hard for you to believe that most white people are killed by other white people?
After all, most people in the country are white, so naturally, our murderers tend to be white, as well. In addition, there is still a great deal of racial segregation in practice in this country, in terms of housing, schools, jobs, churches, and so on. So people tend to disproportionately encounter people of their own race.
John says:
Why do you continue to lie and spin, James? According to the FBI/Justice Department statistics, while 86% of white murder victims are killed by other whites, 93% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks. Even though blacks are a minority in the US (approx. 14%), they constitute a greater number of murderers, than whites (74% of the population). In 2008, 5,334 murder offenders were white, while 5,943 murder offenders were black. In the United States, “our murderers [do NOT] tend to be white”, James. Get your facts straight and stop drinking/dispensing the politically-correct Flavor Aid.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html
James says:
John, did you actually read what I wrote? I was very clear that most homicides are interracial, so while I specifically mentioned that 86% of white murder victims are killed by other whites, anyone reading my post would also have to assume that a high proportion of black murder victims must be killed by other blacks.
As for your suggestion that blacks commit murder at a higher rate than whites, I said exactly that in the post:
How, then, can you tell me to “get my facts straight,” when you’re citing the very same facts I already have?
You also say that I said “our murderers tend to be white,” but you neglect to mention the context. I was referring specifically to the murderers of white Americans, refuting the idea that blacks are a major crime threat to whites:
I’m left, sadly, with the same belief that motivated me to write this post in the first place: that many Americans are convinced, falsely, that black criminals pose a significant threat to white Americans, and that this mistaken (and adamant) belief feeds into other damaging attitudes about race and racial justice.
Anon says:
These statistics are a joke. I can’t believe anyone would believe this delusional garbage.
There’s a reason racial segregation still exists in the United States. It’s because once blacks starting moving into a community, they bring along crime and violence. Within ten years the community is completely deteriorated. Most whites leave and relocate. The blacks eventually follow. Repeat vicious cycle.
James says:
Anon, what exactly makes you think that these statistics, largely from the Justice Department, are “a joke” or “delusional”? Do you not believe them? Do you not believe they’re the most relevant facts for understanding the situation?
As for residential segregation, it’s simply fantasy to suggest that it exists in the U.S. today because of modern issues. Our present residential segregation is primarily the result of many generations of redlining and other segregationist policies. Segregated communities persist today largely because of inertia, and because of the fact that, as research shows, even a tiny minority who prefer living with “their own kind” will be enough to maintain segregated neighborhoods.
Your suggestion that blacks bring crime when they move into white neighborhoods, and destroy such communities “within ten years,” is also plainly false. Middle-class blacks, for instance, moving into middle-class white neighborhoods do not bring crime or cause infrastructure deterioration. Crime and other social ills are overwhelmingly the result of poverty and neglect, and when poorer people of any race begin to move into previously prosperous communities, there can be a rise in crime, a gradual deterioration in community institutions and infrastructure, and middle-class flight.
I think your comment illustrates perfectly why statistics such as the ones at the top of the page are so important. I doubt very much that you would be able to hold beliefs such as these if you understood that very little of the crime facing whites in this country has anything whatsoever to do with black citizens, and that crime rates among black citizens, in turn, are driven primarily by disproportionate rates of poverty and neglect, as well as the cultural impact of generations of discrimination and abuse.
Shannon says:
WOW!These statistics are shocking! But can anyone answer me this, Why is it that we are willing to debate about this topic, but do absolutely nothing to change these statistics? If you ask me America has established a mentality that African Americans will not change. But the reality of it is that we as Americans are so use to putting another race down that we never take the time to bring them up! That is why African Americans say ” the man is tryna keep a brotha down” because in reality we are. We are so use to considering African Americans as a statistic that we forget that they are in fact humans, who make mistakes! Just as we all do whether you a white or black!
James says:
Why is it that we are willing to debate about this topic, but do absolutely nothing to change these statistics?
I’d like to offer two modest responses to your provocative comment, Shannon, and I’d encourage anyone else to jump in with their thoughts.
First, I suspect one reason that little is done to change these statistics is a lack of information and the widespread acceptance of certain myths about blacks and crime. This is why I think discussion about this topic is vital. I’m constantly amazed at how many Americans labor under significant delusions on this topic. Until more Americans understand what is really going on, and what has caused us to reach this point, I doubt that constructive solutions will be possible.
Second, I suspect another reason that little is done is that it is not at all obvious what to do. Part of this is that we have politicians, pundits, and ordinary citizens who keep putting forth proposed solutions that only make sense if listeners believe one or more of these myths about blacks and crime. But even once we accept the reality of the situation, there are no easy answers and there are many theories about what will and won’t work. After all, many solutions have been tried so far, with only limited success.
Dan says:
Hip hop culture is trash and all who follow. James enjoyed the honesty, throw political correctness out the window…
Dan says:
also the comments from john december 22 shines a good light on the subject. Please keep typing more comments on how blacks keep digging holes and making this country a great place.
Marvin says:
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” MLK I could not have said it better Myself ! THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTOR !!!!!!! Even MLK knew it wasnt the color of your skin but how you acted …around others that would cause you to be judged. Statistics say that if I am around Blacks I am more than likely going to have a higher exsposure to a crime ! It is not your color that keeps me from wanting to embrase you. It is your culture. Yet you blame Me as a white for not wanting to be around you ! I am labled a racist because I want to be safe !
James says:
Marvin, what you’re saying couldn’t possibly be more antithetical to King’s philosophy.
You’re taking a statistical fact about millions of people, and using it to judge individuals who may be of the highest moral character. King wanted his children to be judged by the content of THEIR character, in other words, by their own actions, and not by people’s stereotypes about those who look like them.
Statistics do say that blacks are more likely to be involved in crime. Let’s set aside the reasons why this is true, even though those reasons make a mockery of your argument that black “culture” is ultimately responsible, and ask ourselves whether your response to this statistical fact is at all reasonable.
You say that you avoid being around blacks because you believe this will expose you to crime. Do you also avoid being around young people of all races, since statistically this group is much more likely to commit crimes than black citizens are? Do you avoid being around people from poor communities, since this is a much better indicator of crime risk than being around black people?
Finally, you say that you want to avoid black people in order to be “safe.” Did you read the statistics above? Did you notice that white people are exceedingly unlikely to be caught up in crime committed by black people? Whatever you can say about black crime as a social issue, it is simply not a significant threat to you as a white person.
EMLLY AVA says:
Of course whies committ more crimes numberwise, but not percentagewise. For example if there are 100 whites and 12 blacks, 10 whites would have seen the inside of prison walls sometime in his of her life, whereas 6 blacks would. So that would mean that 10% of whites and 50% blacks.
James says:
That’s exactly what I’ve said above: whites commit a greater number of crimes, while blacks are statistically more likely to be found guilty of a crime.
These facts define the contours of the problem: contrary to myth, blacks do not pose a crime problem for whites (both because whites commit more crimes than blacks, and because crime against whites is usually committed by other whites), but there is a disproportionate amount of crime in black communities (with blacks making up the overwhelming majority of the victims).
Armed with these facts, we can say something about white complaints about blacks and crime. We can also begin to explore why there is disproportionate black crime: as I’ve indicated, we know that this is partly the result of such objective factors as a greater incidence of poverty among black Americans, and partly the result of other issues related to our legacy of slavery and race, such as a legacy of abuse and neglect on the one hand, and suspicion and mistrust on the other.
Chris says:
In 1994 “he” and his followers promised a new dawn for what became termed the Rainbow Nation. That was the year that “Apartheid” came to an end in South-Africa. Wow, we are free from white domination.
Today 15 years later “we” stand out as one of the most dangerous crime ridden nations on Earth. We are world champions in terms of murder rate and rape(includes the ugly phenomenon of child rape)
Genocide Watch(Dr Gregory H. Stanton) reported back in Jan 2006 the slaughter of 2000 white farmers-since 1994 is genocide in SA. Given that it is now all but illegal in South-Africa to report the race of either victim or the perpetrator of a crime (unless the perpetrator is white and the victim black) and as modern SA official crime statistics are notoriously massaged, it is impossible to know the exact number of farm murders that have taken place up to date.
As with the Matabeleland massacres, news of which the BBC together with much of the world media suppressed for twenty years to protect their one time hero, Zimbabwes Robert Mugabe, another secret genocide is being ignored by the world media. That is the Genocide in Democratic South-Africa. Just search SA farm murders-crime, but should be warned of the very gruesome images of what is going on in SA.
How would America look like if the whites would make out 6% of the population??
Jim says:
James, what do you mean when you say that black crime is a result of the “greater incidence of poverty among black Americans”. Most other nations where people have much less material goods but there is nowhere near the crime. It is not poverty, but a person’s values or lack of values which makes them decide that they want to commit a crime. Where do these values come from? Look at their rap lyrics, their political leaders and choices in role models; or look at their attitudes toward school, education, law, white people, etc. You get the point. It has nothing to do with poverty as people are not stealing food, they are stealing the latest greatest pair of Nike shoes. Poverty has become a convenient crutch to gain sympathy.
Terence says:
I’ve read all the comments and I have to say that none of them surprise me. As a Black man it pisses me off that the facts are what they are. It pisses me off just as much when I accept them, but others don’t because they want them to be worse. I say want because the DOJ would be viewed as an awesome source in any other situation, but because these stats conflict with the stereotype’s about blacks, they are all of a sudden unreliable.
What you fail too mention is where crimes committed by blacks generally take place. Five black guys at a Starbucks, regardless of how they’re dressed, will most likely not be the ones to rob you. Five black guys in ‘the hood’ standing outside of a liquor store on the other hand, will probably take your car.
I grew up in the suburbs but I have family that did not. Growing up this way gave me a different perspective than my family that grew up in black communities. I was always being prepared to go to college. I was told how to dress for a job interview. My friends went skiing, and took their boats to the lake. My family grew up thinking that all that was for white people and they couldn’t be a part of it. When I say all that I mean college too.
They were not entirely wrong but mostly incorrect. I say they weren’t entirely wrong because it seemed like anytime I said something about snow boarding, or camping, or whatever, I got looks like ‘black guys don’t do that’. It’s like people thought I was trying to be something other than what I am. I had a serious identity crisis because I was exposed to another way of living than my ‘people’.
Now that’s when Hip Hop come in. Growing up outside of the black community you don’t get a lot of black influences. So us black suburbanites were just like the white kids that listened to wutang clan and started tyring to dress ‘gangsta’. For me it was a cultural expression (i know it sounds stupid now). For my family it was just the way it was. The rap used to relflect the community than it started sensationalizing the truth and thats when even the urban kids started to do more than what was real.
So with all that being said, we segregate because it seems like we’re supposed to, and gangster rap does increase crime among minors. Blacks with jobs and mortgages dont usually kill, poor ones do. thank you.
Jim says:
About 30 years ago I was a sophmore in high school my mother had a nervous breakdown (she thought we were losing our home), running through the neighborhood streets, screaming until the ambulance caught up with her and sent her away. Later that day I remember a neighbor who walked into our house, opened the refrigerator and found that there was no food, it was completely empty. Our fatherless family with 6 brothers and sisters knew that we were poor but I think it was the reaction of the neighbor when he saw that there was no food that it really hit home that in spite of our pride we were at the mercy of others’ charity. But never did any of my brothers or sisters ever consider harming anything to improve our lot. And I don’t think our circumstances are to different from millions of other despirately poor white and black people who could not under any circumstances harm another person.
The point I was making in my previous post was that it is all too easy to use poverty as a reason to hurt others. This is something I still cannot fathom, and I credit my brother’s and sister’s values to the way we were raised by my parents.
Chris says:
Do you folks know what per capita means? African Americans are 5.6 times more likely to commit a violent crime, than a white person living in the US. They are 28 times more likely to commit a hate crime where the victim is white, than vice versa. All of the above are statistics taken straight out of the same exact source that you are using. You’re just failing completely to interpret them properly.
50 some % of violent crimes are commited by blacks in this country, when their stake in US population is no more than 13%. 90 % of black kids are on food stamps or take advantage of other fed assistance programs. 1/3rd of AA population is on Welfare (28.3%). Should I go into OOW births and incarceration statistics, or maybe the fact that 5 times as many young AA males spend time in prison rather than graduate college?
Statistics are all there, you just need a little common sense to know how to use them. THese statistics are alarming and should be faced head on by AA community. Trying to pretend thatper-capita doesnt exist or the sources are racist, only makes these problems worse. Wake up black america.
James says:
Chris, I think it’s safe to say that everyone here knows what “per capita” means. Just look at the back-and-forth about what the differences in per-capita crime rates do, and don’t, mean.
Speaking of which, your confident belief that most of us are failing to “interpret” those statistics “properly” is misplaced.
You, for instance, cite several statistics about the black population, while implying that these statistics are very different than in the white population. In fact, that’s generally not the case at all, and most of what variance there is can be explained by reference to such factors as poverty.
Do you really believe that these statistics can tell you why there are differences, on average, between white and black Americans? If so, why, and exactly what are those differences? If not, then how do you believe you can use those statistics to call for black Americans to “wake up” and use “common sense” in addressing the problem as you perceive it?
To the extent that these statistics, broken down by race, can be mostly explained (at least in a strictly statistical sense) by reference to factors like poverty and education, what do you believe to be the source of those differences?
Can you explain the higher levels of poverty in many black communities, for instance, in a way that justifies your confident assertion that black communities need to fix themselves? Can you explain why you dismiss, out of hand, the possibility that our nation’s long history of slavery and racial discrimination is the source of these differences, and not whatever moral or other failings you believe you see in the statistical evidence?
Chris says:
James,
The reason I brought up per-capita is that while many understand the actual definition of this term, they fail to apply it when debating. For example, saying that most crimes are commited by whites, while a true statement, is also very misleading considering there are roughly 250 million whites lving in this country, which stands for 68% of US population.
Poverty is a nice excuse and a crutch, but it also has its expiration date. Black statstics and white statistics are nothing alike, and no matter what statistic you look at, you find that blacks are lagging far behind not only whites but every ethnic group living in the US.
From disproportionate crime rates to incarceration rates, to unemployment rates, to poor education rates, to welfare rates, to AIDS rates…I can go on and on. Poverty, does effect some of this behavior and helps skew these rates to a degree, but it is hardly a cause.
So spare me the nonsensical “84% of crimes against whites are commited by whites” BS excuse. It means absolutely nothing to anybody. How about you focus on real problems, like more than half of murders and violent crimes commited by blacks, which more than quadruples their stake in this population – due to complete disregard for human life by many.
In my opinion, the reasons for these differences are many. Every ethnicity is different, from physical and mental makeup to cultural differences and values. Slavery and racial discrimination surely do play a role here, but it shouldnt be used as an endless excuse to underperform and wait for someone else to fix your problems. I assume you are aware of the fact that blacks were never the only ethnicity to be enslaved, and many have moved on long, long time ago to live in prosperity and become law abiding citizens.
Education has no importance in urban black communities. I have spoken with many AAs, and the most common response i got, yeah its important but i know Joe and he has a vending route and he never went to college. 70% of black kids grow up in single parent families or units, which sets them up nicely for future failure. Young boys get young girls attention by thug behavior, and certainly not by doing well in school. In fact, I have heard with my own ears, blacks talking about going to college as acting like Uncle TOm, for a peer AA. Parents, seem to really care less about their kids education as seen in PT meetings and such.
Without education, you end up with stupidity, lack of individual growth, poverty and unemployment. Look, these are very, very complex issues, and Im really not trying to oversimplify them, but the bottom line is, that no one is going to fix those for you.
Black america needs to look itself in the mirror, and move forward. Believe it or not, nothing would make me more excited than to see US AA communities stadnup on their own to feet, move forward and succeed on every level. But the plain and inconvenient truth is, that they are struggling and the rest of america is getting fed up, much quicker than you’d like.
James says:
Chris, it isn’t misleading to say that most crimes in this country are committed by white people, and that crimes against white people are overwhelmingly committed by other white people, even if the per-capita crime rate is higher among blacks.
The issue is what point is being made. If you’re looking to make the facile argument that black Americans are statistically more likely to commit crimes than whites are, then the per-capita rate is relevant.
If, on the other hand, you’re rebutting such claims as the argument that blacks represent a significant crime threat to whites, as this post was doing, then the per-capita rate is nothing but misleading.
“Poverty is a nice excuse and a crutch, but it also has its expiration date.”
How so? Do you mean that after a while, poverty no longer affects the poor? Or that after a while, we should expect poor people to behave as if they were well-to-do, and not have rates of crime, drug addiction, and so forth that look like those of the poor?
Or are you making a racial argument, that because black people s a group were poor after slavery and have been relatively poor ever since, that we should not expect black citizens born in recent times to be poor?
The fact is that poverty and wealth tend to be transmitted generationally. If you have an identifiable group that is poorer than the population as a whole, for reasons not of its own making, then you can safely expect only gradual change from generation to generation. Even given equal opportunity, which black families have never had in this country, the difference will be wiped out only after many generations.
“blacks are lagging far behind not only whites but every ethnic group living in the US.”
This is patently untrue, Chris. Do you really think, for instance, that the Native American population is far ahead of the black population in measures of poverty and similar factors? It isn’t.
“Poverty, does effect some of this behavior and helps skew these rates to a degree, but it is hardly a cause.”
Actually, poverty is known to dramatically shape crime and incarceration rates, AIDS rates, and the other factors you mention. Not to mention unemployment and welfare rates ….
“spare me the nonsensical “84% of crimes against whites are commited by whites” BS excuse. It means absolutely nothing to anybody.”
This statistic should mean a great deal, Chris.
I hear all the time that blacks represent a significant crime threat to whites. This is a perennial excuse for all sorts of complaints and proposed policy interventions against the black community, and this statistic proves that it is nonsense.
“How about you focus on real problems, like more than half of murders and violent crimes commited by blacks … due to complete disregard for human life by many.”
Chris, I’m sure you’ve been told that crime in the black community is caused by a disregard for human life, or other dysfunctional values. That doesn’t make it so. Again, I would point you to the fact that poor white communities see vastly higher rates of murders and other violent crimes than middle-class or wealthy white communities.
“Every ethnicity is different, from physical and mental makeup to cultural differences and values.”
It’s simply not true, Chris, that human beings vary in “physical and mental makeup” according to race (much less ethnicity). At best, race and ethnicity are social categories which track only loosely with a handful of genetic traits which do not affect gross physical or mental characteristics.
“Slavery and racial discrimination surely do play a role here, but it shouldnt be used as an endless excuse to underperform and wait for someone else to fix your problems.”
First, I don’t see anyone here trying to use slavery and discrimination as an excuse. We’re just talking about the facts here, and you’re taking sharp issue with the analysis.
Second, what is endless? If the legacy of slavery and race in this country hasn’t yet been addressed, then shouldn’t we acknowledge that they still play a dominant role in crime and other issues?
“I assume you are aware of the fact that blacks were never the only ethnicity to be enslaved, and many have moved on long, long time ago to live in prosperity and become law abiding citizens.”
Can you give me an example, Chris, of an ethnic group which experienced something akin to chattel slavery and then “moved on” in the way you describe?
There are examples in U.S. history, for example, of ethnic groups where a minority of its members experienced indentured servitude. This was nothing like chattel slavery, especially in its effects on families. Moreover, these were primarily ethnic groups that have been considered to be white, and thus part of the mainstream, for many generations, affording the descendants of indentured servants plenty of time to gradually improve on their lot in life unhindered.
“Education has no importance in urban black communities. I have spoken with many AAs, and the most common response i got, yeah its important but i know Joe and he has a vending route and he never went to college.”
Let’s leave aside the accuracy of your claim about black attitudes towards education, Chris, and see what we can make of the explanation you offer.
You suggest that the reason for a relative lack of emphasis on education is that some black citizens believe an education is not key to the type of jobs they seek.
This makes perfect sense to me. Why do middle-class and upper-class parents and institutions stress education so strongly? Primarily because it is seen as essential to the right careers. It is no surprise, therefore, that in poorer communities, where most residents have relatively menial, low-skill jobs, and expect their children to have similar jobs, there is little value seen in education.
There is also a long history here when it comes to the black community: Generations of black Americans saw that all but the least-desirable jobs were off-limits to black citizens, and that those black students who did well in school were not given access to higher education or to more promising careers, facts that really began to change only in the 1960s and 1970s.
In these circumstances, wouldn’t you expect that black parents and institutions would not especially value education for their children, compared with, for instance, staying out of trouble, learning to work hard, going to church, and supporting their families? Do you think that cultural values like these simply vanish in a generation or two, even if opportunities were now perfectly equal?
“nothing would make me more excited than to see US AA communities stadnup on their own to feet, move forward and succeed on every level”
I’m sure that’s true, Chris. Because then, you would be forever free from having to ask the really tough questions here: How did these circumstances arise? How is it that these problems happen to disproportionately beset the descendants of those who were enslaved or suffered under Jim Crow? What is the responsibility of the victims of this history to care for themselves, and what is the responsibility of our society to address the legacy of our own history and inequities which afflict our own people?
You’d even be free from asking the most uncomfortable question of all: What is your responsibility, as someone who has inherited so much benefit from this history, towards those who suffer from its legacy today?